Capture the moment, with Joe Denyer
Great photography is a powerful marketing tool.
A picture is worth a thousand words and, when done well, professional photography has the ability to transform your website and digital marketing.
In this episode, I’m joined by our resident photographer Joe Denyer.
Joe is responsible for capturing incredible images and moments for our clients.
I sat down with Joe to ask him everything you wanted to know about professional photography, but were too scared to ask.
For example, with fantastic cameras at affordable prices, what’s the difference between asking Joe to take your photos compared with your nephew and his Nikon?
If you’re the sort of Financial Planner who is still rocking a headshot from a decade ago, then this episode is definitely for you.
Here’s Joe Denyer, in season two, episode four of the Financial Planner Marketing Playbook.
This is the largely unedited transcript of our conversation, so apologies for any typos or weird spellings![00:01:01] Welcome back to the Financial Planner Marketing Playbook. Today I’m delighted to welcome Joe Denyer. Joe is our resident photographer here at Bamford Media, so we work very closely together. He works with lots of our clients, and I wants to bring Joe on to the podcast today, really to talk about the importance of photography from a marketing perspective. [00:01:27] So how it’s used. Maybe dispel a few of the common misconceptions around photography. So, Joe, welcome to the show. Could you maybe start by telling us a bit about you and a bit about your background, how you became a photographer and about your life story a little bit? [00:01:42] Joe: Hello for start, I started off in, I was really keen into photography very early on. [00:01:49] My dad worked on the railways and he was showing me, Rahway Burt, with fantastic photography from 1983. So it was about two. And I would, you know, it just continued. I’d be looking at these books and immersing myself in them at the time. Obviously not realizing it, but now really, you know, looking back on it, I would pretend that I was in a shoot myself and how I would, uh, be able to. [00:02:17] Take on that atmosphere and become part of that life. You usually, it was steam engine photography. So from then it was always about, you know, being in seeing life in black and white and it being from a bygone era era as life went on, obviously photography, I, you know, I was, I was seeing different types of photography landscape and it wasn’t just books. [00:02:37] I was obviously getting older and, but I was still living life. Almost through a lens. So I would, everything I would see, I would almost be working through manual exposures in my head, even sort of nine, 10, 11. And I guess it just progressed through as I grew up. As I say, I was just exposed to different things, natural things in life, but I would always have a camera. [00:03:03] Um, usually just a disposable camera. But my granddad, um, grander briny come. He, um, was a keen. Photographer, I’m just amateur. And he had some, some nice kits, which I would get to play with, but I’ve only recently been told about that. My, my mum recently said, Oh yeah, Glenn, that has like a roll of flex. Um, you know, slide. [00:03:26] Medium format camera. And he used to play with that and I was like, well, I don’t remember doing that. She’s [00:03:31] Martin: [00:03:31] like, who even gets play with cameras like that today? No, of course. You don’t [00:03:34] Joe: [00:03:34] know. Not so. No, no. That was amazing. It’s a shame, you know, I think, I like to think that she said that it was sold on. Um, and now it’s worth about 3000 pounds. [00:03:44] I would like to think that had I been. Given that as a handy down that I would still be using it, be able to use it today for special shoes. [00:03:53] Martin: [00:03:53] And then later in life, you ended up in Manchester and I think Manchester was quite pivotal for you around your career and life. [00:03:59] Joe: [00:03:59] Before that. I mean, I was at college, Brooklyn’s college in Weybridge. [00:04:02] Uh, I was sort of, uh, 17, um, and. I, you know, I, there was myself and another boy in class and we weren’t considered to be, um, the, the ones that they thought really would have any future, um, in a creative industry. So when work experience opportunity came up, he went to chefs and studios to do. Um, videography and work. [00:04:25] He worked on the film set of golden, I think it was at the time, which was amazing. And I thought, right, I’m going to, I’m not going to target someone local. I’m going to target someone massive. Um, so I went to all sports, which were formerly Getty images. You know, I was sweeping their floor, developing their films, talking to sports photographers like. [00:04:44] You know, these really, you know, world famous, um, sports photographers, and then I straight away realized almost from that point on, it’s almost like you always have to persevere with something and why, what is, you know, what’s wrong with aiming really high? There shouldn’t be any limit to what you can achieve if you put your mind to it. [00:05:03] And you know, those, it was almost like those teachers saying to me that I was never going to make anything of myself where some sort of ignition to. Make me believe actually the opposite. I can be better than that. So yeah, it [00:05:15] Martin: [00:05:15] often takes that, doesn’t it? It’s like somebody to to not believe in you for you to go off and [00:05:20] Joe: [00:05:20] chase like a trigger. [00:05:21] Yeah, absolutely. Somebody has to kind of knock you down a little bit. It’s a bit like when you’re younger and you’ve done something wrong or you start getting a bit lazy around the house and then your dad’s or your mum, well looks you, and then you sort of realize. You know, start realizing, actually, I’m going to pick my shoes up when I get in the house. [00:05:38] I’m going to put them away, or I’m going to hang my coat out when I get in the door. Um, and so yeah, you mentioned Manchester. Um, yeah, I fell in love holiday romance. I was at, um, all sport for four years, and then, um, unfortunately, yeah, fell in love. Um, I think it just got to the time where digital was coming along my job, uh, as a junior dark room technician or G, uh, into a dark room technician. [00:06:03] At the time, there was no real need for a dark room anymore. Anybody processing film. It was, it just wasn’t. There. So the jobs where opportunities were getting smaller and smaller to go into digital, and I wasn’t, I certainly wasn’t going to be processing film. I might have been a caption writer on, um, images. [00:06:22] Um, and then I would have maybe done a little bit of shooting, but I didn’t think the opportunity was there and cause I was half thinking about, you know, my emotions and you know, my love for this person at the time. Um, and I’d always had a thought that I might. Live in Manchester at some point. My life is, my dad had been taken me to the football ever since, you know, the early nineties or the late eighties, even. [00:06:46] Yeah. So I moved to Manchester and worked in fashion and retail, um, and did quite a bit of, um, account management with, um, com different companies. So therefore, I, I was always good with people. And, um, and I think that’s really helped me, uh, later on in my photography career, being able to speak to pretty much anybody, making people feel at ease and comfortable, um, ready for them being on camera, as a lot of people don’t like [00:07:14] Martin: [00:07:14] that. [00:07:15] Well, I wants to ask you about that because I think for a lot of people, if they get an email round for the company and says like, Oh, we’ve got a photographer coming in next week to do team photos and profiles, that email. It’s just a sense of dread because they don’t want to be in front of it. Yeah, of course. [00:07:29] So how do you put people at ease when you go into office? You go into a business, it’s time for the photo shoot. They stand up against that. Yeah. Lovely backdrop with your lights on and the camera gear in FX, how do you put them at ease? [00:07:41] Joe: [00:07:41] Well, the first thing, get them talking about themselves. Get them talking about, you know, comfortable things in their life, whether it be their children or their pets or, um, you know, their hobbies. [00:07:52] Um, and then. You immediately like build up that rapport with them so then they gain a little bit of your trust. Um, the whole time that I’m doing that, talking with them, I’m holding the camera, um, quite closely. Um, you know, so it’s almost a part of our conversation, so they’re not suddenly daunted. By the fact that right now I’m going to pick up the camera and then they have to click back into defensive mode. [00:08:16] Um, I think that’s definitely one of the key points for me. And then as I start taking the pictures, I might talk them through a position to stand in, just to start off. Um, I usually put an X on the floor if I’m installation tape. Uh, so they kind of, you know, so they know exactly where they might be standing. [00:08:36] And then, yeah, I might just, uh, I might carry on talking to them. Keep them talking, ask them an opening question so they can be talking. And then I’ll start taking pictures. So even if I’m not gonna use any of those pictures, I will use them one for my lighting so I can get my settings absolutely perfect. [00:08:54] And too, because again, it’s getting them talking and then you’ll find that if you continue that. You might then say something funny to them, say like, I don’t have anything in common with them at all, which is very rare. There’s always, there’s always something. We’ve both got heads on our shoulders for a start, so we’ve got that in common. [00:09:11] Then I will maybe throw in a really bad dad’s joke. Uh, not no K’s there. Europe, Europe, who, and I’ll be thanks. And then there’ll be a, you know, some sort of a smile, even if it’s a really, like, I can’t believe that person’s just said that to me. That is shocking. And then that’s already bang one picture there. [00:09:31] And it can just. Grow from that [00:09:33] Martin: [00:09:33] really, and for you as well. I mean, you’ve, you photographed a big range of subjects, so everyone from, as I say, members of teams in businesses through to celebrities and musicians. So how, how do you manage that sort of nervousness when you’re, you know, with a big name and you’re responsible for capturing those very special moments? [00:09:52] Joe: [00:09:52] I think ultimately it doesn’t matter whether they’re a great big celebrity in the, you know, being all over the news all over the world, or you’ve seen them on TV growing up or. Wherever they are. They’re only, they’re only people at the end of the day. And it’s only what the press or, um, that world makes them, you know, they might be a superstar in their own right for being a musician or a, an athlete or whoever, but ultimately they’re only a person. [00:10:21] And so, you know, you can both talk to each other. Generally speaking, they’re going to want that. They want to have some photos done because it’s. It’s good promotion for them. They’ve almost, um, experienced enough to not be rude. And you know what, even if they are, he who cares. You know, like sometimes we all have bad days and we will, will, like, under pressure with certain things, weather, whatever it is. [00:10:45] So if, if you don’t have that banter with them straight away or you know, they don’t necessarily, they’re not necessarily going to give you a great big high five or a hug or a kiss or whatever, then it just doesn’t matter. You just. You just have a little initial chat with them and yes, I don’t necessarily go out to know Rogers in, in his, in his, on his tour bus and say the Europe, not, not joke, but, um, I certainly find something to talk about. [00:11:10] Um, and ultimately this, it’s the same thing. Get them talking because then they feel like. Ultimately they are the most important person in the room. I’m just there to try and capture a little tiny moment within that 32nd window that I might have with them, or 20 seconds depending on. How big a sort of celebrity status they have. [00:11:29] I think I had about, I don’t know, I had about 28 seconds with no Rogers, and I think I shot about 36 pictures in that time, but [00:11:38] Martin: [00:11:38] enough to trigger fully automatic. [00:11:40] Joe: [00:11:40] Yeah, it was. It wasn’t, well also you can’t do that because then there’s straightaway where your pap Roxy, what the hell are you doing in my space? [00:11:48] You know, this is, I mean, for him, for example, that was on his tour bus in his bedroom on the tour bus shared by the group. I’m chic, and you know, there’s about 10 members in their band. So for him to have, they’re all in there like birthing pods, and he’s got his, you know, he’s got his slide on suite at the back of the bus. [00:12:09] But as, yeah, you can’t go in there like flash trigger, flash firing. Um, you know, you still have to have that little bit of chat. Even if you, you’ve got 28 seconds, she spent 20 seconds talking to them and eight seconds taking pictures. You’ve got to make sure that in that eight seconds you’ve got one or two that are going to be, you know, worthy of something. [00:12:28] Martin: [00:12:28] Th thinking about the importance of photography from a marketing perspective, all the marketing we do, every business does is very visual. You know, all of our websites and the digital marketing and social media platforms are very visual places. You and I look at. Websites. We look at social media platforms and we critique them on a regular basis. [00:12:46] So what are some of the things that we see that we look at and think, Oh my goodness, you know what? What went wrong there? Yesterday, you and I were looking at a few websites and we were pulling them to pieces in terms of their photography. [00:12:59] Joe: [00:12:59] Well, yeah, I mean, there’s. There’s key points that we discuss. [00:13:03] While we were looking at websites, supports, rates, environment, movement, brand, emotion, customers, team portrays. For example, you may have, there could be eight. People. There could be eight members in that team who work at that site. Five of them will have pitchers. They weren’t all necessarily have the same backdrop behind them. [00:13:25] The lighting is usually a bit of a mismatch. The focus for some reason, which I can’t work out how somebody cannot focus a portrait who stood right in front of you. Even if it’s on a mobile phone, you still normally would put your finger on the, on the screen and you know you would. You could get a very basic image. [00:13:46] Uh, so there’d be that mismatch. And then the other was that five, the other, you know, four would just, or three would just be missing completely. It just, it would have a name underneath it and there’d be no face. It’s like, Oh, well, we haven’t got such and such as face yet, because you know, well, where’s that person? [00:14:02] Well, they’re, they’re living on the moon at the moment, so we’re waiting for them to get back environment. There’ll be absolutely no environment. So then you immediately think, well, it’s just somebody working in their shed at, yeah. Home, they haven’t got an office space, or they may have looked on a, some sort of a library, and they do the opposite, and they could have an office that could be in the middle of a rain forest or something. [00:14:24] Again, it’s, it’s okay, but it’s not really relevant. It’s not realistic. So their brand movement, again, so the, you know, there’s no. There’s no coming together. There’s no, there’s no flow through the workspace, you know? So you can’t see any of that energy that that is their brand. So they haven’t got anything with their logo on, there’s no strap lines. [00:14:47] There’s, you know, there’s nothing that. Has any visual impact within their creative space. Um, emotion expressions. So, you know, that’s just natural. Again, it’s almost like energy again. What, what’s going on for the people? Are they, do they love where they work in? You know, there’s just none of that. So customers’ interaction, so obviously they. [00:15:10] They have a Mo, they have a brand. Um, and, and where’s, where’s their market? Who is their customer? And if you can’t see that, then are you left to think about that? Or, you know, well, maybe they haven’t got a customer then where they are, how small are they? You know, they say that they’re successful in their bank and this and that, but I can’t see any of that. [00:15:29] Martin: [00:15:29] It’s somebody we encourage the financial planners we work with the really think about carefully, which is not making. Themselves, the hero of the story, not all about them, but making the customer the hero. Absolutely. Really the financial planner and the business owner is there to guide the customer, the client through the journey, and to make sure they get safely to their destination, and that does come through in photos. [00:15:50] If you look at a website, you look at social media and it’s all me, me, me, then. Even if we’re not consciously thinking about, well, where’s the customer? Subconsciously, unconsciously we’re thinking, where are they missing from that picture? [00:16:03] Joe: [00:16:03] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Cause then it’s, it becomes more about the person who’s just had the beautiful highlights down at the weekend. [00:16:11] Or, you know, they’ve got their beautiful facial hair, but you know, you almost get stuck on that. And do you think, well, you know, where is the customer? The customer, the customer is what drives the business. And if it keeps, you know, if they keep coming back, then you know, ultimately they are going to put more trust in that, in that brand. [00:16:33] Martin: [00:16:33] You mentioned a moment ago about the ability to sake. Yeah, fairly good photograph with an iPhone, for example. And the quality. Now if the cameras we see in iPhones and Samsungs, even consumer cameras, you can buy for a few hundred pounds. They are, you know, better sensors, better quality and cameras that were professional cameras 10 20 years ago. [00:16:53] So, so tell me about why it matters to use a professional photographer. What does a professional photographer like you. Bring to the party compared to someone who’s got a nephew with a 500 pound icon or 500 pound cannon camera they’ve bought in, they’re maybe a bit keen on photography. What’s the difference? [00:17:09] Joe: [00:17:09] Um, for me, for me personally, I can only speak from my heart. Um, is the main one is experience, which, you know, ultimately I think overcomes everything you can spend what somebody can ever 500 pound camera. Yeah. But yeah. Are they using automatic settings? Are they using manual settings? Um, for me, everything’s always been manual. [00:17:30] The lighting is then consistent. Even if you have an automatic, it won’t necessarily capture the lighting perfectly if you think you think, how many times are you taking. In your picture a say on your phone, for example. Um, do you ever consider the fact that are indoors and the, the lighting is perfect already? [00:17:48] You’ve got lovely sunshine coming in, but it’s not oversaturating the shot, so it’s not overexposed in the image. You take the picture. Oh, what was that? Your flashes turned on on your phone? Is it? Oh, it’s on also. Why? Why? Why have you got that flash? Now you’ve got to, now you’ve suddenly given that person yellow, like a yellow tint to their skin. [00:18:10] Because you’ve used that yellow flash and even with their 500 pound camera, if you have a pop flash and it’s on also, for example, this exactly the same thing will happen again. It will think that it needs to have the flash room when it doesn’t. So I mean, for me personally, I would see straight away that say I wasn’t using any lighting, my location studio lysing that I’d say to every shoot. [00:18:33] So I wasn’t using any of that until I consider what my ISO. Sensitivity is what my aperture, my operatory is like my main one. Obviously shutter speed is key because if it’s too slow, then you might have some movement and therefore you could be out of focus. But aperture, you know, controls ultimately controls the, um, the levels of the light levels. [00:18:55] So. Immediately your, you know, say you’ve just got that white light coming in with the natural sunlight coming in because I’m on manual settings and my white balance then is corrected, um, to the, you know, to the setting. The skin tones are going to be absolutely. Perfect. I think that that makes a great big difference. [00:19:15] And you know, when you’re looking at a website and you can see it’s been done professionally, a photographer will certainly put a big tick next to that sorts of thing, whereas an amateur, um, or, you know, like you say, somebody who’s just got. An expensive kit, but doesn’t really necessarily know how to use it in the right situation. [00:19:34] I think it’s quite an obvious thing to be able to see that it’s not being done professionally and everybody’s got to start somewhere. Everyone has to learn, but I think that. You know, when you’re doing it for a website, it needs to be perfect and there’s plenty of opportunity for practicing, like behind sort of closed doors if you like it. [00:19:53] That’s how I, that’s certainly one of the reasons, the case [00:19:55] Martin: [00:19:55] of all the gear and now idea in some cases. Now you and I had a fun experience before Christmas where we were on a shoot together and I was holding the camera for a bit, took a few photos and said to you, you know, make sure you credit me if you use those photos, how will you be able to tell which ones I broke up, laugh. [00:20:11] It because it was quite clear which ones I take and compare to which ones you’d be. [00:20:16] Joe: [00:20:16] Yeah. [00:20:16] Martin: [00:20:16] One was [00:20:17] Joe: [00:20:17] your horizon was pest at the time. I remember it looked like we were on a ship, a sinking [00:20:22] Martin: [00:20:22] ship, and that was with a, you know, a 3000 pound set up. You [00:20:25] Joe: [00:20:25] know, . They go for it straight away. I could see that had got your horizon one key. [00:20:31] So, and I know that ma, and you had actually done that same thing when we did our cheeks or run our charity, run a you T fired off about three shots and straight away you did it. One keeper. Um, I mean, and that can work for some pitchers, but I could straight away and realize that it wasn’t correct for that. [00:20:49] Martin: [00:20:49] Yeah. It wasn’t, it wasn’t intentional RC, it was just, it was just off balance. But yeah, it’s an interesting one. And I think, yeah, there is a huge difference between when I see the quality of what you take versus what I can take. And I. I’d class myself as an enthusiastic photographer. I’ve had, you know, 1520 years worth of practice doing it and love doing it. [00:21:08] But there’s just a huge Gulf between what I can achieve and what you can achieve, even with the same kit, same settings, which, which is quite quite salad. Now, one of the issues we see within financial services, particularly within the trade press, is out of date photos. And we see this on websites too and on social media, but I can think of numerous examples of financial. [00:21:27] Planners, financial advisors, I know who are in the press regularly, but the photo that’s printed with our column or their article, their comments is a decade or longer out of date. And I’m guilty of doing this sometimes as well, but how often should we get off the top, you know, photographs updated. [00:21:43] Joe: [00:21:43] Um, I would say probably every, every one to two years are, I would probably think that. [00:21:49] It would be best. You just, I mean for portrays except for example, you do change slightly over time. I don’t actually know the, the, the complete answers to that question because it could be a personal. It could be a personal thing, couldn’t it? [00:22:05] Martin: [00:22:05] Yeah, very much so. I think, I think once two years is a pretty good in civil to get it done. [00:22:10] Anything older than that, you know, fashion changes. You have a style of what we’re wearing, cause it’s very, again, maybe without even thinking about it directly. I think we see photographs are outdated and a bit old and we immediately know in our brains that actually that isn’t quite authentic. It’s not quite up to date with the person that’s going on. [00:22:29] So yeah, it sounds, sounds like a good. [00:22:30] Joe: [00:22:30] And also. Let’s say if I just think about that, for example, with my own website, I would want to update my website. I would probably do it for photography. I’d probably do it every, my own personal stuff. I’d probably do it every six to eight months because I’m choosing that my staff and I feel like I’m getting better and better and better. [00:22:50] So yeah, I guess one to two years for portraits, for example. You know you’d want to do, as you say, you know, it could be your style could change slightly. You may have grown a bed and that could be your, your new you. And so you know, you, why would you not want to have that as, as that, that’s your current year, isn’t it? [00:23:08] At the end of the day. So. [00:23:09] Martin: [00:23:09] And I know one of the things that prevents people from engaging with a professional photographer like you, is a fear that it’s going to be prohibitively expensive. Um, so, so give us some ballparks or not, lots of looking for precise prices, but some ballpark figures. What, what can you expect to spend and what most importantly can you expect to get once you spend that sort of money with a photographer? [00:23:30] Joe: [00:23:30] I think most people would think that it would be thousands of pounds, or at least a thousand pounds. For me, it’s more likely. You know, roughly two 50 to 500 I would say with that, you would get probably 40 to 60 images for a, for a say a two to three hour shoot. And you know what? Even if I did a one hour shoot, I would probably still shoot 40 images. [00:23:53] It’s just that it all depends on the type of the shoot that it was, but. For this market, 40 to 60 images. You’ve got them in both high resolution, which we you would use for, um, which are 300 DPI. I do all of that. Again, that’s what you get with the professional photography. You get it all edited correctly. [00:24:13] And that would be used for anything printed. So magazines, leaflets, anything like that. And then you also get it in low resolution, which is 72 DPI that can be used for any screen, anything that’s for your social media website. Et cetera, as I say. And you also get the experience of somebody who, myself had been editing since probably 1998 I think I’ve been using seven I’ve been using Photoshop for. [00:24:40] So you just learned not to go over the top with Photoshop unless you’re rebuilding a bride’s face for a wedding, which I haven’t had to do for years, fortunately. You know, you shouldn’t, it should be as natural as possible. And I think, again, with the lighting. Say I am using my lighting. If I do it for a lot of my porch rates, just so you get that consistency, you shouldn’t have to do that much Photoshop work because of the lighting is key. [00:25:09] If if the lighting’s really high, high end lighting, then you know their skin tones are going to be perfect, the focus is going to be perfect. Obviously the expression you would hope is going to be perfect because that person is going to have a natural. Um, you know, it could natural smile or that they’re gonna they’re going to look comfortable on camera. [00:25:28] They’re gonna look professional and negative. Look proud of what they, what they’re all about. [00:25:32] Martin: [00:25:32] Yeah. And, and also approachable and authentic and absolutely friendly. And the rest of it, which is so, so key, particularly when we’re thinking about approaching financial planners. But it sounds like what you get within that package. [00:25:42] Is sufficient not to start date the website, but also always to have a folder of assets that you can then use as the situation arises. Of [00:25:50] Joe: [00:25:50] course, you can drip feed that into your market as and when you need it over the next year, over the next two years. Yeah. Ultimately, yeah, you just drip feed in [00:25:58] Martin: [00:25:58] and we encourage financial planners to put themselves out there to pursue PR opportunities, so to comment in the press, because it’s a great way of building your profile and. [00:26:07] Very often the first thing a journalist will ask for after you’ve given them comments is a high resolution headshot. They need that. So accompany the piece and, and yeah, to make it so relevant now you, you don’t just shoot financial planners as assumptions that was being as exciting as that would be. [00:26:23] And are you, you do an awful lot of different work in different sectors. Um, so recently, and this was. Part of the sheet with a financial planner. We had you out in Ireland, encountered slow-go doing a documentary shoot for a magazine feature for a financial planning firm. Um, you’ve just spent some time with the flying Scotsman. [00:26:39] Tell us, tell us about the flying Scotsman, cause that was an interesting one. [00:26:42] Joe: [00:26:42] Um, so going back to my dad, um, having worked, and he reads, he retired in 2018 he’d worked for 50 years on the railway. He even had a train named after him. So obviously the flying Scotsman has been a big part of his life. Um, and. [00:26:57] Quite a big part of my life when I’m having seen pictures of it. Um, it comes, obviously we live in the Surrey Hills. It comes to the Surrey Hills once a year in the summer for usually two or three times. And that’s it. And my children, for example, who are three and six year of age, um, you know, they get so excited about when’s the fluff Goffman coming, you know, we get to, we obviously get to go and see it. [00:27:22] So yeah. In January, I was browsing through, um, a couple of websites, and I can’t remember the exact point as to why I typed in the flying Scotsman. But anyway, it came up that it was coming to the mid hand’s railway in Hampshire from where we were. It was coming in like, I don’t know, six weeks time. And I was thinking, well, what’s that all about? [00:27:42] So I spoke to my dad, who is now a volunteer on the Midlands runaway, I mean, carriage restoration. And he said, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s coming. Yeah. I was like, okay. Were you ever going to . Tell me about that. And he goes. Well. Yeah, probably was going to. Yeah. But I’ve been busy now. I’ve been busy. I was like, yeah, of course you’ve been busy dads, you know, you’ve retired. [00:28:02] You’re busier now than you’ve ever been. And I said, okay, well, I’m thinking about photographing it. Oh, you’ve got no chance, no chance of doing that. Well, they laugh. Their own pool of photographers won’t know. You know, you’re not going to get to do that. And they ran away photographers and you know, you’re a different kind of photographer. [00:28:19] And I was like, right, okay, no problem. Immediately. There’s that person saying, [00:28:23] Martin: [00:28:23] lit the fire with the [00:28:25] Joe: [00:28:25] hose. I was like, okay, if that tells me I can’t do it, then I’m definitely, so yeah. I set about working out how I could best get my foot in the door with them very much going back to how it was when I was on my work experience, we’ve always bought getting my foot in the door. [00:28:41] And how I’ve done it with my now Roger shoe, you know, did a bit of research, got through after a couple of weeks chasing the box team manager for the Midlands WowWay yeah. Made a phone call. And yes, of course, they said, Oh, they’ve got their own pool of photographers. No, sorry. Um, and I did use a little technique I’d remembered from my sales days with that little bit of, um, almost uncomfortable silence left in the middle of the call. [00:29:06] Made by me for them to then have to ask a question, which was, unless you think that your stuff is better, to which I replied, yes, I do. I’m not adequately but confidently, because I had obviously researched what the images were like. Um, and for my particular style of storytelling, documentary photography, this would sit perfectly for their like PR event, if you like, to, which I received an email. [00:29:33] A week later to say, wow, amazing. Uh, you know, I love the way that you capture the expressions on the young and the older generation, and you know, we would love to have you as one of our photographers. So that was my first sort of hurdle. And then my next hurdle was to think of how, okay, how can I get that to a wider audience? [00:29:53] So then I contacted a major. News agency. Um, and they said, sorry, it’s, um, you know, if you want to do any exclusive stuff with the flying Scotsman, then you have to go to the science and society picture library. So that’s the science museum as everything is owned by them. So then I contacted. Um, first I contacted the national railway museum in York, which is where the fried Scotsman is. [00:30:17] Usually it usually lives, um, when he’s not out on the road, I couldn’t get through to them. So I waited another week patiently, and then finally got through, um, spoke to a really, really kind gentleman there. Um, and he says, no. Uh, you can’t do anything with us. But then after a bit of a chat, um, he then put me in touch with the pitch library, the science museum. [00:30:40] I spoke to them. They again said no, and then again with a little nice conversation and they could see that I was obviously not just a press photographer. I was somebody who had, you know, a passion and a love. Which is obviously always care. If you really love something enough, then you’re always, your heart is always going to push you on. [00:31:00] And so ended up, um, that I would then be commissioned to do this shoot for the front Scotsman, um, for the national railway museum and my images will go in the science museum. So then my next thing was to think, right, how can I make these shots even more amazing now? Because I, now I’ve got the people look, you know, ready to take on the. [00:31:21] The stuff. I wanted to have an advantage of the lights. I didn’t know what it was going to do is probably going to rain this time of year, but I thought if there’s any opportunity and there’s not rain, then I’d need to be there. So I spoke to the mayor dance, clears it with my dad, who was going to be my plus one, which works out perfectly because it was a father son bonding day out. [00:31:41] Which is rare now, being a parent myself, most of my time is spent with my children, and obviously my dad’s retired anyway, so he’s got no time for anybody else. Yeah. Managed to get there for five 30 in the morning and it turned out, you know, maybe that was fate. It was a stunning sunrise that morning. [00:31:59] Captured some of my favorite pictures I’ve taken in years of the sun, you know, shimmering against the flying Scotsman as it was firing away. I’m there and it had just been sat there sort of peacefully through the night. You know, the stars were still out when I arrived, and it was just magical. And those images of ne now being, um, you know, they’ve, they’ve seen my images, they absolutely love them. [00:32:24] I’d probably show about five different photo shoots within that whole day for different things, poor traits. If events, you know, it, it covers everything. A little bit of artistic railway photography and their brand. And then, yeah, now they’ve. All of those parties have seen my images and they’ve recommended me to the national and international rail magazines, um, to which I’ve sent off my work. [00:32:49] Um, won’t hear back until maybe I see something in the press or I’ll chase it up again in, you know. Four weeks time or say [00:32:57] Martin: [00:32:57] it, I mean, you’ve obviously got a passion for photographing different types of items, people, et cetera, et cetera. Um, how does that help you when it comes back to doing portraits for businesses, for financial planners in that market? [00:33:12] Yeah. What, what do you take from a day on the flying Scotsman to bring back. To give you a different edge when it comes to business photography. [00:33:21] Joe: [00:33:21] I think, well for a start, there’s, is, there’s a good story there for that. They, um, a lot of people like to hear good stories, don’t they? Should they want to ask me? [00:33:30] Um, have you got any stories about the flyers got split up? Um, I think you just go with that. Obviously I was absolutely buzzing from that day and I was buzzing for weeks in the buildup to it. If you take that confidence with you and that positivity into a place that maybe is. Shying away from the camera, doesn’t want to have the camera on them. [00:33:50] You immediately, you’re, you’re not being too loud. You’re going in there and you’re just being gentle, but quietly confident. Um, it’s just, it’s a nice presence to have in your workspace. And if you, if you take that with you, then. People buy off people. Hopefully they will see that and they will warm to you. [00:34:10] And that can, that, that experience then fits in. If I can take a poetry natural lights, then I can do a portrait where they’re standing in front of, you know, two decent lights, uh, in, in their office. So. And the same with there in the environment. If they’re just, you know, if they’re working away in their office or they’re having a, um, a business meeting or a pretend business meeting, talking about what they had for breakfast, again, you’re just, I’m just there capturing that natural reaction that they are having amongst themselves. [00:34:46] So I am almost a fly on the wall. Ultimately, which is one of my favorite kinds of photography anyway, because then you’re not staging anything. There’s nothing, you know, they’re not doing anything fake. It’s, it’s all natural. Somebody in the office without me being there is they’re all gonna make it. [00:35:02] Maybe it’s the office joker or is somebody that may be breaks the ice in that. In that setting. [00:35:08] Martin: [00:35:08] Joe, thank you for joining us on this episode of the financial planner in playbook. I’ll make sure I put links to your portfolio and your contact details in the show notes. For anyone listening who needs to update that photography on their website, on their social media, and just have that, that set of assets really of of digital photography, that’s really well done. [00:35:24] It’s authentic, it’s professional. They can get in touch with you. They can share on a shoot. I know you love traveling, so you’re happy to go anywhere to do it and sure. Yeah. We’ll uh, we’ll put you in. Thanks for having me. [00:35:33] Joe: [00:35:33] Thank you.